The Nanny state strikes again. We’re big fans of The Vortex here at Muttroxia. Fairly standard bar & grill food, in a nice atmosphere. The Vortex is one of those places that makes it clear the customer is not always right. The menu is great fun to read. Take a flip through their No Idiots Policy. One piece of it is out of date, the smoking policy. It currently reads, “The Vortex is proud to accommodate non-smokers and smokers alike, and we will continue to do so as long as this choice is not taken away from small business owners by anti-smoking zealots and evil government bureaucrats.”
Well, that choice got taken away. The new policy in that neck of the woods is that no one under 21 can be exposed to smoke. The Vortex management believes strongly in personal choice and individual responsibility. So they made the choice to no longer allow anyone under 21. There is a bouncer at the door at all times to check IDs. This is a shame. As the Vortex managment says,
VORTEX TO REMAIN SMOKER-FRIENDLY
At The Vortex Bar & Grill we are staunch supporters of individual liberty and freedom of choice. But unfortunately the State of Georgia is not. Under the rules of the new “Georgia Smokefree Air Act of 2005,” we are legally prohibited from offering smoking as an option for our customers unless we restrict minors from our premises.
We are saddened that the State government is forcing us to limit the choices we offer our clientele, but since The Vortex was established as a social gathering place for adults, we will continue to offer the option of smoking to our patrons.Therefore, EFFECTIVE JULY 1, 2005 you must be 21 years old to enter The Vortex.
We are deeply concerned that more citizens do not understand the real danger in government-sponsored Smoking Bans and other types of coercive legislation that violate individual choice and private property rights. Yes, tyranny is alive and well and can often be found hiding behind the label of “Public Safety.”
I couldn’t have said it better. It’s exactly because of idiocy like this that so many people identify themselves as libertarians, the normal liberal vs. conservative lines aren’t adequate to express how many people are appalled at their government intruding in their lives like this.
(It’s all the more ironic, because the evidence that is used to go crazy about the barest possibility of second-hand smoke is extremely suspect. Take a flip through, and watch the video here. The gist is that all sources trace themselves back to one EPA study, which was itself overturned in court because the science was so poorly done.)
I don’t smoke. Disgusting habit, and obviously not very smart health-wise. But hey, if you want to do it, go ahead. I’ll even have a meal with you. America, get over it.
Point granted. However, if you are this loose, then virtually everything anyone ever does is political, economic, legal, moral, etc. I hope you would agree that measuring the right to smoke in a private restaraunt and the right to keep tax money (or have more influence over how it is used) is comparing a primarily political issue with a primarily economic issue.
May I reming you that taxes are a political decision-you may characterize it as an politicAL decision but the taking of money from me thru taxes clearly prevents me from spending mt money as I wish and therefore has a clear cut political dimension
Father of four, welcome! About time you joined in!
You bring in another issue, about public money going towards those who voluntarily choose to endanger their health. That’s a very interesting issue, but not germane here. They would be taking the same risks whether or not they were out in public.
I also think it’s interesting how much you can associate economic freedoms with political freedoms. Is the freedom to pay or not pay taxes of the same “level” as political freedoms? Is freedom to smoke really the same kind of liberty as a bit of my tax money spent in ways I don’t like? You could argue that this is an economic issue in another way. The Vortex and it’s patrons have a deal to eat and smoke, why is the government as a third party allowed to overrule that deal? Note that many like myself don’t mind secondhand smoke, particularly if there is a non-smoking section (as there always has been.)
In my carseat rant, I spoke about a balance between public laws to prevent risky behavior. The state has a right to do so, if the behavior is so injurious to the public as a whole… the bar must be pretty high, and the burden of the proof must be on the state. And in both the case of carseats (for older children) and second-hand smoke, the evidence is shaky or non-existent.
P.S. You may have some expert knowledge on the science of second-hand smoke, you are welcome to illimunate the huge readership here. I’d like to see your reaction to the link I posted.
It is clearly,in my humble opinion,an impingement on my rights when I have to pay taxes to care for a person who thru their own poor habits has injured both them selves and others by smoking. To the extent that they wave their right to any medical care for their smoking then let them kill themselves if they wish, If they want me to care for them when their lungs are shot then they should waive this privilege and I will waive my role as a citizen and let them kill themselves. The problem I have is how do we insure that they do not kill others with their smoking.
Libertarian philosophy is about allowing the individual to be free of intereference from the government- however with it goes the responsibility to not become a burden on others. As JUSTICE bORK SAID AT THIS CONFIRMATION HEARINGS THE NUMBER OF LIBERTIES IN A SOCIETY IS FINITE.If I give you a liberty to smoke you are taking away from me the liberty of spending my earnings as I wish by forcing me to pay taxes to pay for long term consequences of your smoking
I applaud the work of non smoking advocates and feel that the government has to step in and protect me and all others from the insidious effects of smoke- as they should do to protect us from other pollutants in our industrial society
I would refer you to the work of Isaiah Berlin on the issue of the incompatibilities of all as pects of liberty in a society
Signed
Clear thinking father of four
Same thing here in Lexington, only less sensical. Here in Lexington, you can’t inside AT ALL. They actually have police officers going into strip clubs just to bust people. Clearly they’re protecting the health of youngsters by preventing old men from having a cigarette with their tit show. Amazing.